5 1/4 Component Help

[audiobass10]

I know eventually i'll have to upgrade from my blau 5 1/4 coaxials into a component set when i get two Tempests otherwise I wont hear much music. Another thing i'm aware of is that 5.25's lack in midbass and i would miss out on the male voices. Could using 5.25's still be successful in the setup i'm trying to do? Anyone have 5.25 comps? Also, has anyone ever installed 6.5's in a Jeep Cherokee..the doors seem rather slim and i would rather not have to cut wholes in the doors as I will be getting a new suv/car/truck next year after i graduate. Just lookin for some tips/suggestions. Thanks

[dveeg]

The front doors on Cherokee's are weird... 6 1/2's are a little too big and 5 1/4 are a little too small... I have a 99 Sport and have 5 1/4 Infinity Kappa components in the front. I checked all different sites and it varies between all of them whether they say a Cherokee uses 5 1/4 or 6 1/2...(same with the rear)

[ridr4lif]

what kind of jeep do u own? a buddy of mine had a '95 grand cherokee and it has 6.5's front and rear. he installed a kicker component set in the front and regular kicker coax's in the rear and it sounds decent. pretty loud for being pushed off of the deck.
TEDD

[71buickfreak]

you need to get a set of Q-logic Kickpanels. they will give you better imaging and staging as well as let you install up to a 6" (you can do a 6.5 if you custom install it)

[dveeg]

http://www.qlogic.ws/2003/products/qforms_detail.jsp?classID=57&productID=5604

theres a link for ya

[dveeg]

http://shopper-search.cnet.com/search?q=jeep&tag=top&x=4&y=6

theres cnets link to places you can buy them and stuff

[audiobass10]

Well, if i look into kick panels i'll more than likely fibreglass them myself...Also, the Grand Cherokees do not have the same size speakers as the Cherokees. Mines a 93' btw..and i already have 5.25 blaupunkt coaxials in there.

[71buickfreak]

why waste your time fiberglassing unless its a full-on custom or you are using something goofy. at $150 max, its cheaper than cutting up your factory kicks (which to replace will run you $100-175!) Plus, they take all the guess work out of the imaging and staging, so you KNOW they will sound awesome. and the colors are already matched. I know guys who compete in Iasca and USACi SQ comp and win with Q-Logic kickpanels! definitley the best way to go, with out going full custom.

[audiobass10]

well if i get kicks..they need to fit the 6.5's..know what i mean?..Also would they be 150 each or for both?

[Jonathan]

Under $150 for the pair. The bad side of the Q logics are that they need sound deadening because they resonate. They are open backed and need some work to produce any kind of respectable midbass. They are optimized to perform well with a variety of speakers, but full custom will give best SQ in most cases simply because you're optimizing the kicks to match the off axis performance and sound characteristics of the components you're using. IMO the Q logics work better when used with a 3 way component system, they just don't have the airspace to produce a lot of midbass in a 2 way setup. There aren't many 6.5" systems that will fit in the panels. If you're willing to do some work on sound deadening them, they'll sound much better than stock spots for imaging and soundstage.

[71buickfreak]

Most of what Jonathan said is accurate. I do however disagree on the resonance, as when they are properly installed, MOST (some older models aren't as good I will you that) have no resonance. Pretty much any normal 6.5" mod will fit if you do one of 2 things: cut a small wood ring to sit in the grill recess and surface mount the driver or back mount the driver (I have done both) Yeah, if you use a 3 way set up, tweet and 4 or5 in the kick and a 6.5 in the door, awesome sound. I have used that set many times. You can sound deaden them if you like, a small strip of roadkill or dynamat will be all you need, ot that any is needed for great sound. They do have an open back, but that doesn't mean anything. the most important thing is seperating the rear wave from the front and minimizing path lengths between your ears and the speakers. I run a set of MB quart PSD 316 (tweet, 4", 6.5") in my kicks (no I am not running Q-Forms in my 71 GS, they don't make them for it and they don't make 3 way kicks) in simple fiberglass kicks without an enclosed back. I get PHENOMINAL mid bass, so much that I have run the system with out subs and people ask me where are my subs. its all in speaker placement and tuning. By correctly installing the Q-forms, you will seal off the rear wave from the front wave essentially creating an enclosed space, giving what you are looking for. Also, they include a small pad of polyfill to slow the air down behind the kickpanel so it mimics a larger space like that of an eclosure for a mid bass driver.

[Scarrell]

Audiobass you need to get ahold of CrzyStng.. he also has a Cherokee and has two 15" Tempests powered by a JBL 1200.1 and two JBL 80.4's pushing all his components, he can probably help you out more since he has a Cherokee also...

[crzystng]

I am running 7" vifa PL midbasses in my doors. all I did was make a board to cover the outside of the pannel and the 3/4" mdf gave me enough room to clear the baskets. 3" deep i think. as for mounting a 6.5" in the stock locations. unless you want to cut up the doors, aint gonna happen. cherokees and grands are not the same to who ever posted that previsouly. 5.25" in the cherokees and 6.5" in the grands.
pics of my system are here
http://www.rankmyride.com/?page=cars/view&CID=6316&pnum=2
and please dont flame me for the dual midranges. you havent heard them so you dont know how they image!! better than most would think. not exactly a point source system but not far off either!!

as for using the q forms pos thingys. dont. open backs arent all that great for proper imaging in most cases unless you have some weird phasing issues. if you do decide to drop the cash on those things do your self a favor and glass the backs of them. it does make a difference!!! it is more cost effictive and a good learning technique to build your own.
if you need some help drop me a line and I will do what I can.

[71buickfreak]

Agin, there quite a few SQ competitors that compete and win with un-modified Q-Forms.

[jonnyb]

i made my own custom fiberglass kickpanels for my zx2. didnt take long, and way eaiser than i thought to make. cost about $50 dollars in material for both. (i dont suggest making them if you live up north, wait until it warms up.)

[crzystng]

(i dont suggest making them if you live up north, wait until it warms up.)

unles you have access to a heated shop!! :happy055:

Agin, there quite a few SQ competitors that compete and win with un-modified Q-Forms.
ever see someone win an IASCA event with q logic kicks?

[71buickfreak]

I don't have a problem with custom kicks, I have custom kicks. I have also used Q-Forms. And for the ease of use and installation, I suggest using Q-Forms for any vehicle that is not getting the full custom treatment (even then sometimes) or when the owner\builder doesn't have the knowledge of how to build good quality fiberglass kickpanels. yes, it is pretty simple in terms of the materials and laying it up, but its really easy to screw up a set of factory kicks if you don't have your imaging right or cut the wrong thing. Q-Forms take out the risks by giving good solid performance coupled with straight-forward instruction and solid mounting. they don't just lay in there like most fiberglass kicks do (rarely do I see a set of custom kicks that bolt in, they usually just lay there.) Plus the durability of ABS vs. Fiberglass is much better, thats why the better body kits are made of polyurethane or plastic as they give and flex when needed to avoid breaking. step on a fiberglass kick and its rebuild time. not a problem with plastic! I just think people shouldn't overlook the Q-forms when they are a viable product and cheaper than building custom kicks. Just my opinion.

[71buickfreak]

ever see someone win an IASCA event with q logic kicks?

Yes I have. I know several people. even here in the land of Gary Biggs and Rob Rice. :banghead :teach

[crzystng]

[QUOTE=71buickfreak]step on a fiberglass kick and its rebuild time. QUOTE]
hmm dont know whos building yourz but i could stand on mine if i wanted to. they are that strong. multipule layers of chop matt!!!!

I do agree with some of the points you made about the indivuidal not wanting to pay someone to build them a set of custom kicks, as they can get very expensive when dealing with shops and stuff, so they jsut say it is cheaper to get some q logics things and call it a day. this suffices for most. but if they want to have better response factors and imaging then the best way to go (while using q's) is to glass the back side of them and seal them up. sometimes this does cause unwanted resonances and you need to drill a hole in the back side of the kick to vent them out, but thats not the same as a totally opened back.
and I do totally agree that proper imaging in a diy kick can prove to be difficult at times. but you just play around with the direction of the drivers and get it where you want it BEFORE you start in on the final glass assembly.

[71buickfreak]

I fully understand what you are saying. My point is simply why mess with all the glass work when all the work is done for you? the Q-Forms designers work very hard to get the imaging and staging just right on each set of kicks, so that you don't have to. I am not saying "don't build custom kicks" I am just saying if Q-Forms offers a model for your car, you can spend the time it would have taken to design custom kicks and spend it on the rest of the system and you can rest assured that the Q-Forms kicks will sound great. Alot of people glass or deaden the backs of the kicks, I am just saying if you read the instructions and install them correctly, then there is no need to do it. And I was exagerating on the one step and it rebuild time. I built my kicks 4 years ago and haven't had a problem, but I have seen other people's kicks break and have to be rebuilt. It's not that big of a deal, I just like Q-Forms and think they a great way to get better sound in your car and are affordable and good looking. They look factory, something fairly difficult to achieve with glass as most kicks are tweeded or vinyled or painted. the grain of the plastic Q-Forms blends well in most cars.

[crzystng]

Looks like we have gotten off onthe wrong foot here!! we are starting to get to a point where we can both agree, and I think it is pretty obvious that we both have a fair amount of knowledge in the wonderfull world of audio reproduction!!

something for yourself to consider about these wonderfull time saving inventions though is that not every speaker has the same on and off axis response, along with enclosure requirments. this in my book would mean that you could go out and buy the absoulte top of the line, creme of the crop comps and they sound like total crap in the wrong kicks. (OK well not to their full potential) I am sure they do spend a lot time designing and optimizing parameters for the majority of the comps out there, but not all will yeild the same results. ;)

btw mang i jsut had to give ya crap bout that one step rebuild thing! !LOL that is jsut a sign of porly constructed kicks there mang!! LOL fiberglass is very strong IF reinforced correctly.

as for thier looks, I will 100% agree that they do intregrate well with the vehicles interior!! they have done a great job in incorperating an aftermarket comp set in what ideally should be factory!!
but a simpe 4" and tweet in the kick can look pretty damn good too. and by going with a custom route you also have the option of going stealth!!

BTW what are instructions?? LOL