Detroit Bailout

falkenbd · Post by **falkenbd** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:49 pm

If they close down, and all of those jobs are lost, I think we'll be consumed by Canada and Mexico.

cargodz · Post by **cargodz** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:31 pm

The funny thing is (as pointed out earlier) that the CEO's and all of the companies higher up executives just make to damn much and spend to damn much on these frivolous things... There's your start... Cut their pay in half (at least) or get rid of them and replace with people that are capable and willing to take the reigns at a reasonable price... No more allowances for all these extravagant practices.

Make changes to not only the retirement, but also the unemployment pay... Should they be taken care of? Sure, but I believe any extra money after retirement or while laid off should be better spent in health care and not so they can just continue to live the high life... Cut the costs of these expenses by say 30-40% and then give them a good 401K and a proper investment package and leave it.

Now as for the vehicles... C'mon! Do we really need 2 of the same models just with different badging... Answer: NO!
Do we need to look at some newer technologies for saving fuel... Answer: YES! Now I give credit to GM on this one (kind of) because they are finally preparing to launch some realistic vehicles with some new Hybrid technology, and I know the norm has always make sure that Cadillac is cutting edge first, but look at what's going one around you... People aren't looking for the creme' de la creme' of Hybrids... Most of them could afford the gas when it was $4+ a gallon... Start with the working mans truck, the Soccer Mom's minivan, and for the love of Pete the commuter car.

MobileAudio219 · Post by **MobileAudio219** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:02 pm

Up until the last year or so most people didnt think twice about fuel economy, so they'd go out and buy a big suv's and 4 door trucks, not because they were practical, but because they were trendy!

So the big three were doing pretty well selling these vehicles, but then gas prices went crazy and people started down sizing for more fuel efficient vehicles...

They have potential, but they need cut corporate waste and start designing lighter,nicer, fuel efficient vehicles...

Like I said, I think we should bail them out, but with many conditions!

Ryan from Ohio · Post by **Ryan from Ohio** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:44 pm

You cant survive when you lay your work force off to save only 5% of their costs yet get nothing in return. They would be better off to work them and spend the 5% more and get PRODUCTION out of them.

Bottom line is GM needs to file some sort of restructuring thats government involved to survive. They just cant keep paying out to all the hourly's that are retired like they do and make money.

If they could cut that cost and get the hourly rate down to something feasible, around $20-22 hr for line workers AND get the unemployment at State standard (not 95% of pay...) they can make it.

The biggest thing is putting out a product the consumer wants. Not one they tell us "this is it buy it!"

Jon · Post by **Jon** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:21 am

Ryan they already have new hires down to $13 coming in. The issue is the retirees and guys with 20+ years already in. How do you go to those guys who counted on either staying retired or close to retiring and say, sorry, you are not going to get your money. It is not their fault that they were given promises that are too good to be true. It was the unions and GM that gave them that deal. It would be devistating for them to lose their benefits. Heck, just a few years ago, GM asked them to start paying for their medical coverage that had always been free. They accepted it. Now they are going to lose their pensions as well? Very sad times.

(And I don't have a solution, just bitching)

Ryan from Ohio · Post by **Ryan from Ohio** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:57 am

I didnt say it was fair or a good deal. Its just facing reality. If they fulfill all those promises it will also be their demise.

Just sit back and watch it. Thats what Im doing.

CaptainPioneer · Post by **CaptainPioneer** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:11 am

MobileAudio219 wrote:I think that we need to think long term on this one, we might have to keep them a float for a while, but we cant really afford for millions (potentially) to lose their jobs...

It's kind of scary, if they close down I think really bad things will happen.

Unfortunately, the governemnt has already bailed out all of these companies before... And yes... they still havnt paid back these supposed "loans"...

25B is not a shot in the arm its like taking a fly swatter to kill a damn Bull...

I agree that certain jobs need less pay... yea $28/hr is redic for a drone job... And the reason why these companies are going under is due to terrible management and unwise planning.

Worst case scenario is that a lot of ppl lose their jobs, but to be honest... I doubt that the numbers that everyone is quoting are even relatively possible... Are people going to lose their jobs? Hell yea... But if you are worth a damn in society and have education and experience and a drive to succeed you will find other work...

Thats what America is supposed to be about... the best for the job, not the mediocre who get deals and too much assistance from the gov.
The best option is the Pre-packaged deal that the government is offering and idiots at GM and Ford need to understand that... At least Chrysler is looking into it...

CaptainPioneer · Post by **CaptainPioneer** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:19 am

MobileAudio219 wrote:Up until the last year or so most people didnt think twice about fuel economy, so they'd go out and buy a big suv's and 4 door trucks, not because they were practical, but because they were trendy!

So the big three were doing pretty well selling these vehicles, but then gas prices went crazy and people started down sizing for more fuel efficient vehicles...

They have potential, but they need cut corporate waste and start designing lighter,nicer, fuel efficient vehicles...

Like I said, I think we should bail them out, but with many conditions!

The worst thing is this...

The fuel efficient vehicles that they are touting as the "future" have been around for 20+ years!!!!!

The reason that every car is not a hybrid is because all auto companies know they can keep sucking on the tit of oil for as long as possible... Why the hell do you think the damn Suburban and Hummer are still around??

Honda Made the Insight back in the late 90's and it got close to 60mpg!!! But then shut the door on it due to some clause saying it was a trial run...

The old Civic's (80's) models got upwards of 40mpg and then suddenly they are hovering around 30mpg now??

Sorry... This whole BS story saying it costs a lot of $$ to get a good hybrid is BS...

The technology is there, its just too many oil lobbyists in bed with the car manufacturers to get them out of the rut they keep falling into.

Prius is a good example of a step toward fuel conservation, but the best so far has got to be these new cars that are being produced by independent automakers that are not controlled by the Big 3... The Tango:

is a 1x1 seater that is tiny, but completely runs on electricty and is extremely safe... the only reason its not on a mass production is because of investment capital... Same thing with the Tesla Roadster:

...
I know plenty of guys who would gladly trade in their corvettes and other performance cars to get one of those...
The gov should give 25b$ to those kinds of automakers!!

Bwcad1 · Post by **Bwcad1** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:30 am

Show me the safety ratings of the tango. Show me on paper the advances in battery technology that allowed us to efficiently utilize electrically powered vehicles. I like you man but your on a very slipper slope of fact and opinion. We have been working for the last few years on hybrid and electric technology for lawn mower's riders and utility vehicles , and i know for damn sure the tech, we currently have was not around 20yr's ago and what we had 20yr's ago wasn't nearly efficient enough to be worth it. I also want you to explain to me how you plan to produce massive amounts of electricity to charge your electric car's while restricting coal emissions? i want facts please not opinions or theory's Everyone seems to have idea's and plan's none of them are though out or give proper consideration to the facts. Do your research and come back with informative factual information and then we can carry on about how electric is far superior to internal combustion.

OnYrMrk · Post by **OnYrMrk** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:56 am

The government should do what I have done with my sister-in-law. I made the mistake in loaning her $500 so she could buy clothes for her kids and food for the home...she blew it playing slots.

I learned my lesson.

So the next time she asked for money to buy goods for her kids...I took the kids out and bought them clothes, shoes, and then had her give me her bills. I then paid the ones that were overdue, then took her to the grocery store and we bought food for the house. I still paid $500 - 1000 that day, but, they got their needs met and she wasn't allowed to hold the money.

Same thing needs to happen here.

don't give them the money, they already gamble on the economy. So take their hand, pay off the debts that matter most, and then walk them through with the rest of the money to repair their needs.

simple, yet big business and the government don't understand simple, everything must be done the hard way.

that is why I am running in 2012