Sound Stage tuning.

Post by **GlassWolf** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:44 pm

JeremyC wrote:Thanks Glass, but the honor should go to you and Jonathan. You guys were the ones that got me started down this path on ecoustic. If it wasn't for the things I learned there I wouldn't have continued to study and get to the point I am today.

Speaking of which, the OP should read the FAQ section. Jon did a magnificent job of writing up how to set up speakers in a car for imaging and soundstage, and I transferred it to the FAQ area for reference.

Read that stuff and you'll see what's required for aiming to avoid beaming, have a good soundstage and imaging, avoid coloration and harmonics, 2nd and 3rd order reflections and so forth.

tl;dr, READ THE FAQ SECTION

PS, thanks for the compliment

cool mr grinch · Post by **cool mr grinch** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:05 pm

started tuning tonight, i did all measurements to get basic timing, followed instructions except disconnecting the mids to run tweets only, i would have to disassamble my door panels and thats a pain in the ass, so i did the mids first and then the tweets with the mids, and did all the phasing. this is the outcome, FL is -1.4ms mid in phase, tweet out of phase. FR is -1.7ms mid out of phase, tweet out of phase. and it sounds ALOT better. should i mess with the db on each side, i know it can sound better, its not quite centered but close. also all crossover are set to pass right not f-r at 63hz and sub at 20hz through head unit. i set the subs reversed through the headunit and i noticed the bass jump up front, i have my rear fill disconnected at the moment and now i'm wondering if i even need them? what is my next step?

JeremyC · Post by **JeremyC** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:10 pm

Dude did you measure every thing out like the eclipse book tells you to?

If so undo it and set it like I told you. Trust me on this. I had mine measured out and fine tuned with pink noise and Chris Pate undid it all. Just delay the drivers side mid using the pink noise to center it and MAYBE the rears if you decide to bring them in.

Something I didn't mention but will be easy for you to understand now that you have experienced it. Phasing its just as important if not more important that time delay. Swapping phase actually adds a mechanical delay. Thats why I said check the tweets separate from the mids.

So if your looking were to go next, finish up with what you started. Trust me...

Yeah dude welcome to the no rear speakers club. Once you start to get into staging and enjoying music the way it was recorded (2 channel stereo) you will hardly EVER have your rear speakers on.

I wouldn't do a mass cut on a side unless you KNOW its louder and pulling your stage to that side. In my car I have a 1/3 octave separate left and right eq. So I can go freq by freq and dial in my sound stage. Once you get the phasing right, and the dynamics right. Thats were you fine tune your stage.

Oh the other thing you can do. RTA your car. But be forewarned. All you have is a PEQ on that deck. PEQs are great for dealing with spikes, but they can be a pain in the butt to set up.

The eclipse mic will work and it does an OK job. But it won't work in 3 way mode on the 7200 and its not as accurate as a true RTA.

As for slope try this for starters.

9 dbs hot from 20 to 63 hertz. Slow roll off from 63 to 200 and then keep it flat to 3k. Above 3K roll it off at 3 db an octave. Thats a real good starter SQ tune. If you want something even more SQ based Drop from 9 to 6 dbs hot on the subs and change your roll off to 2 db an octave above 3K. The second will seem more in your face with the front stage. The first is pretty tame all around great sounding tune.

cool mr grinch · Post by **cool mr grinch** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:33 pm

ok, so adjust at 0 time delay, just set time delay for centering. i'll have to run a temp set of wires for the tweets will it matter that they will not be on a crossover?

JeremyC · Post by **JeremyC** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:53 pm

Yeah dude your going to want to pull your door apart. When you adjust phasing of the tweets to the mids your actually adjusting phasing at the x-over point

That and when you adjust the tweeters phase vs each other you want to be focused on the area they play and only that area. If you alow them to play lower (even at low volume) your going to get into the area were time delay is going to become more important and thats going to through you off.

cool mr grinch · Post by **cool mr grinch** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:14 pm

i think im also gonna need to fix this. i may build some tweeter pods i just need to know where to mount them.

JeremyC · Post by **JeremyC** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:10 pm

kick panels, on axis

cool mr grinch · Post by **cool mr grinch** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:25 pm

i dont really understand the on axis/off axis?

kick panels down below my dash?

Ryan from Ohio · Post by **Ryan from Ohio** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:38 pm

Kick panels dont fly in Alero's.

I had the Q Forms and decided there wasnt enough room... Im only 5'10 1/2" on the money... And Im cramped in the Alero.

JeremyC · Post by **JeremyC** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:08 pm

yeah kick panels are down below your dash.

On axis means the speaker is pointed in a direction that you set directly in its area of strongest dispersion.

Off axis your outside the area of strongest dispersion.

Think a speaker pointed at you, compared to a speaker pointing across in front of you.

And ryan I'm only talking about his tweet. It would be a really small kick panel. Basically a single ring and some grillcloth fiber glassed over it.