Yellow Top Battery

[6three6mafia6]

well like i said it took me 2 years before i ran into trouble, so you will be fine pulling a thousand watts plus, eventually you will mess up youre battery(mines got busted), for the past couple of months ive been running 1100 rms(the most i have ever)and my 800 watt kicker 800 was with the boost half way up, and gain less than half way up, this worked fine, then out of nowere my lights started fading REAL bad on the inside of my car, and my battery light came on , and my gains were set to normal, so i put the gain and boost down, and it worked straight for about 2 days , then the SAME thing, then my car wouldnt start , so eventually it gave up , so im sure you can run a lot of stock electrical system but you should eventually upgrade.

[Mithrandir]

cant you lessen the need for more power by just putting your subs in a larger box, even a large sealed box? The only thing the power does is make ur sub move correct? The more air inside the box the less power it needs to move right? If that is so couldnt we just make large boxes and use smaller amps?

[Dustin from Huntsville]

The size of your box effects the frequency response of the subwoofer. The sound can be dramatically effected by building a box to big.

[GlassWolf]

the enclosure size and type is what determines the response curve of the subs as well as the relative output of the system for the amount of power applied.
changing the box will alter it's response in numerous ways. not just volume.

like I always seem to wind up telling people.. try your stereo with the stock charging system first. If everything works fine, leave it alone.
If your lights dim, or the car is stalling out, etc when you're listening to the audio system, then you need to look at upgrading the alternator. the battery supplies no voltage to the system when the car is running, unless the alternator is so overstressed that voltage rails sag to the point the battery is no longer being charged the way it should be. If that happens, you're already in bad shape.

most reasonable to moderate audio systems shouldn't run into problems with a stock charging system, like Dustin pointed out. However with more and mroe people going to high excursion subs, and thousands of watts of amplification, regardless of the amp topologies, and with the owners trying to make the systems heard 4 blocks away for extended periods of time (for wahtever reason.. like a hatred for their neighbors, or a desire to attract thieves) they are going to overtax what an OEM alternator can deliver.

[71buickfreak]

ok, lets see what this brings up....

Caps in car audio were intended for 1 purpose: they absorb a/c ripple that comes off the alt. Richard Clark was the first person to use capicitors in the car as they are used now. He intended to smooth out the current flowing to his amps by reducing the a/c ripple that is created by the alternator and sneaks its way into the system. they were never intended to be used as they have been ever since Richard put them in his champion Grand National damn near 20 years ago! Yes, caps will yeild a little cushion for the transient peaks, but they won't fix the main problem as Kiki said.
The addition of a second battery would be a better fix. You do, however, need to use a large relay to switch to cut off the aux. batt from the rest of the system so that when the car is not running, the 2 batteries won't drain each other. what happens is one battery will have a lesser charge, pulling power from the other, lowering it, then it does the same thing, eventually draing both batteries and if they are not deep cycle batts i only takes a couple of full discharges to kill the batteries, now your buying 2 more. A high-voltage relay from stinger or any other company will provide a simple solution, don't waste your money on expensive dual battery isolaters, as a single high volt relay will do the job and only cost $30. HO alts are not a required item for high-output systems, and they have their drawbacks as well. Most HO alts have a high output above 2000 rpm, however most put out less than stock alts at idle, which can cause other problems, even leading to the ca dying with a big bass hit. Ohio Generator alts tend to be closer to OE at idle, or you can buy an adjustable regulator which will allow you to tune the alt to supply more voltage at idle. Be careful though because most HO alts can generate over 24v! say bye bye to everything electronic in your car! I use an Ohio Gen in my 71 GS with a dual system, a standard reg for driving and an adjustable for comp. I can run my house off my car! all i need is an extension cord and a 60hz tes tone. Most systems don't need anything more than a good quality battery such as an optima red or an interstate. by the way, when was competing in db drags, I was running 6400 watts, one yellow top and the HO alt., this worked out better than when I had 4 stinger comp batt (along with the above components) as the stinger batts actually decreased my voltage! (just like Kiki says). the exception would be to use the turbo start racing batteries that are 16v.

[GlassWolf]

Yes. I know Rick Clark. I used to compete in IASCA Pro circuit around the same time as he did in the early 90s. He was also the first person I knew to use horn-loaded compression drivers in a car as well.

Anyway, the batteries only really help if the alternator is up to par when the engine is running, since the alternator puts out more voltage than the batteries. The batteries are in a charging state when the engine is running, so the alternator has the added task of supplying current to the audio system and charging multiple batteries if you have them. A battery isolator is helpful if you run the audio system for long periods with the engine turned off, as you can run deep cycle batteries down and still start the car with a separate battery, but again, this doesn't help once the engine is running. If the alternator voltage is sagging to the point that the batteries do help, then you already have problems, and you're going to get clipping from teh amplifiers, and problems with the car. You're also causing damage to your batteries and alternator at this point.

regarding batteries themselves though, if the battery isn't a deep cycle, and it's taken to below about 10 volts, even once, this can cause permanent damage to the cells in the battery and it may never be able to charge to 12.5 volts again.
This is why people use deep cycles for audio systems.. if they do run them to below 10 volts, the batteries aren;t trashed as a result. They do well (RG type) paralleled as well, to add to the amount of current-time available.

HO alternators are the only solution to sagging voltage rails when the car is running.
HO alternators also yes, often supply less current at idle than above about 900rpm actually, but they still provide more than the stock alternator even at idle if you choose your alternator wisely in the first place. Designing the system right from the start is the key to avoiding problems. This is why there are professionals trained to do this sort of thing, and why they tend to do a better job than the average shadetree mechanic who just thinks he knows more than he really does, or won't ask for help when he gets in over his head.

ANY alternator can supply over 24 volts. alternators create AC voltage, and it's rather unstable at that. The voltage regulator is generally what rectifies the AC voltage to DC, then sets the output voltage, and most better HO alternators use an external Vreg, so you can set the voltage desired yourself. Most people choose to use about 14.4VDC for output. The output voltage doesn't change with RPM or anything else. This is a common misconception about using a high output alternator. People think it'll damage their car. The truth is, all you're really doing is increasing the reserve current available to the car for things like the audio system.

the way to really decide if you need a bank of batteries or a HO alternator is to decide when you'll be running the system at it's hardest. If you're in competitions that require the engines be turned off during metering, you want the batteries. The alternator is what you're after if you use the car as a daily driver and turn the system up while the engine is running. Different horses for different courses as they say.
The thing to remember about these 16 volt batteries is that your alternator would have to put out more than 16 volts to recharge them.
This is the problem with these batteries, and the reason I don't really suggest them unless you're using them in a 24 volt vehicle or something.
Most components would be at the edge of their spec limits at 16 volts anyway and you'd run a good risk of damaging the gear as opposed to getting more output.
They'd also be useless if your amplifiers use a regulated power supply, as many better amps do.

[71buickfreak]

ANY alternator can supply over 24 volts. alternators create AC voltage, and it's rather unstable at that. The voltage regulator is generally what rectifies the AC voltage to DC, then sets the output voltage, and most better HO alternators use an external Vreg, so you can set the voltage desired yourself. Most people choose to use about 14.4VDC for output. The output voltage doesn't change with RPM or anything else. This is a common misconception about using a high output alternator. People think it'll damage their car. The truth is, all you're really doing is increasing the reserve current available to the car for things like the audio system.

Yes, any alt can produce 24 votls, I was speaking of the adj. regulator would allow you to actually let 24v be produced and sent to the car.
However, most aftermarket alternators do in fact put out less voltage at idle with a non-adjustable reg, as most ho alt do not come with an adjustable reg, that is an extra cost usually $100-$150, believe me, I have sold them for years. try putting a DMM on the battery while the engine is running at idle. you will probably see the batt voltage. then rev up the engine, you see it jump to the 14's. it is a fact of life with HO alts. the only way around it is an adjustable reg, which is really not the best solution because the alt will still increase its output as it comes off idle. its just the way they work. Stock alts are not like this, they usually provide full voltage even at idle. the voltage does fluctuate with rpm, not huge amounts .1-.5 volts, but it does fluctuate. Every HO alt I have ever seen has this same flaw. you have to hit about 1000rpm before it really kicks in. most cars idle around 700.

[GlassWolf]

well I've been a professional instaler and MECP certified master installer since about 1990, and in that time I've dealt with plenty myself, and most every car I'e encountered drops voltage to 12VDC at idle stock. they all have higher 'charging voltage' above idle. That's one reason you can get under-drive or over-drive pulleys for them. this alters their output depending on what you're trying to get from them.
anyway, at idle, the electrical system is almost always at 12 volts and above idle, it'll be 13.5-14.4VDC on average.
that's just how cars are set up.
the only ones I usually see with a 14.4 volt idle voltage are non-stock setups.
voltage aside though, 12-14VDC is within spec, and engine RPM will affect the output more in any event (current, not voltage) due to the alternator RPM being directly proportionate.

I f you're going to go through the hassle and expense of a HO alternator though, you may as well do it right and go with an external voltage regulator that lets you set voltages yourself. No point in doing things half-way.

[71buickfreak]

I agree, do it right or dont bother. I too have been in the industry since the 90's, I was in the Top-100 installers of 2002 in Mobile Electronics magzine, and I am a certified installer and product specialist as well. I am a designer for a car audio manufacturer ( bet you can't guess which one!)
we are talking about the same thing here. I really am not trying to get into a pissing match with you. honestly. just some lively conversation.

[GlassWolf]

I know.

Heck, I still use old early 90s Orion components in my current system because I liked how they were hand assembled in AZ, as opposed to mechanized production lines or child labor overseas. I liked the all MilSpec compoennt choices they used as well. I can squeeze a lot ofut of those old amps and they last forever. Newer amps have much tighter tolerances for things like load limitations, generally speaking, at least till you get into teh four-figure range for amplifiers, then you're back to the hand assembly and mostly US made products.

while you're here if ya plan to stick around, swing by the BIO section and write up a bit about yourself. Folks love to read about others' experience and such. Lets people know who ya are.

the car I'm building now is an older 1966 dodge, but thankfully that means an old school V8 that gives me a ton of room to do stuff like a big alternator, Vreg, 0AWG cable, spray lined sound deadening, etc..
not nearly as cramped as most modern cars. It's nice having the room to work with so I don't have to cram things into places tehy just weren't meant to go.