1 sub or 2?

mac40kfan · Post by **mac40kfan** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:50 pm

I recently purchased a Kenwood Music Keg and Excelon KDC-X579 hu. I know that Kenwood gear doesn't get a lot of love, but I really wanted the Music Keg and a Kenwood hu was a requirement to be able to control it. Now that I have this stuff, I've started toying with the idea of upgrading other parts of my audio system in my tired old '92 Camry as well.

It goes without saying that I'm a noob when it comes to high performance audio, but after researching for the last few days, I'm leaning toward replacing the Kenwood 2-ways in the front with Diamond Audio Hex components with silk tweets (although I reserve the right to wimp out and downgrade to something a bit less expensive). From the limited exposure I've had to component systems, I think I prefer silk over aluminum. I'm not planning to replace the Polk Audio 6x9 3-ways in the rear since from what I've read, they should be providing fill only. I've decided I will be powering both sets of speakers with a Soundstream Van Gogh VGA800.5 5-channel amp. I would prefer to have a seperate 4-channel amp with a dedicated mono amp for the sub, but at this point I'd rather spend the money on better speakers with the option to add or replace the amp later. This amp outputs 50x4 & 200x1 RMS @ 4ohms, double those figures @ 2ohms and can be had for $249 on eBay. It seems to be the best bang for the buck while fitting into my overall budget. I figure the 50x4 is okay for the front/rear, but I'm concerned that the sub out will be wimpy. As I said though, it's a compromise.

Anyway, I really have no idea what subs to marry to this amp. I'm leaning towards Soundstream simply by rep alone since I have no place local to "audition" anything other than the stuff Best Buy carries. :tongue009

For around $150 I can get either a single Soundstream Van Gogh VGW-12 (600 watts RMS) or a pair of Edge Series EG-12X (350 watts RMS (ea, 700 total?)). First of all, are either of these options going to sound okay considering the VGA800.5's sub output? My thinking is I'd rather spend a bit more on the sub(s) now, even if it is underpowered and be able to add a dedicated mono amp down the road rather than get subs rated for 200 watts RMS to match the amp and have to replace them later as well. If that's doable without the sub(s) sounding like crap or potentially being damaged, which option is preferable and why? In short, is my money better spent on one higher priced sub or two lower priced subs?

Sorry for the long post, but I figured more info would allow people to make a better response. In addition to answering the 1 or 2 sub question, feel free to suggest other subs that are a better match to the VGA800.5, bearing in mind that I'm looking to keep the sub budget under $200, but don't bother to recommend more expensive amps and/or multiple amp arrangements as the overall budget for this project won't allow it.

Scarrell · Post by **Scarrell** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:22 pm

your speakers will be fine with 50rms to each.... the Diamonds will sound alot better than them Kenwoods. from your post it sounds like you dont know if you will have enough bass? more treble/mids than bass? right? well when you add a sub it should be well rounded out. so i wouldnt worry about that, if you have room for two then go with two, two subs will add a little more bass. but thats up to you. other subs to look at are..... Resonant Engineer RE's and the next line i think is in your area. also look into Adire Audio Shiva's... if you can fit a 15" id go with a Tempest

i hope i helped, i just woke up so.....

Ryan from Ohio · Post by **Ryan from Ohio** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:35 pm

I would go with a single sub, 15 if you could. With the low power the tempest should rock your car.

BTW if you want to save money have a look at the CDT comps at http://www.thezeb.com

A really nice set is there to be had for $150, this set normally goes for $300+

Scarrell · Post by **Scarrell** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:24 pm

yup the Tempest would definately rock that car, i still cant believe the sound quality and how low it can drop and how loud it gets with only 150rms... it was $166.28 shipped to me (Illinois) and http://www.acoustic-visions.com sells adire for the same price shipped (instead of $150 plus shipping from Adire its $150 shipped, they work with each other) so check in to them, call Adire or Acoustic Visions and ask if they are in stock before you order.

pics of the box/tempest:

http://www.sounddomain.com/memberpage/738344

mac40kfan · Post by **mac40kfan** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:01 pm

Thanks for the responses. I talked with my local installer and he says 10's product the most accurate bass. I'd heard this before from another source, so now I'm planning to go with 10" rather than 12". As for the 1 or 2 question, he said while two would have more surface area and hence be able to push more air, it wouldn't significantly improve the sound quality, assuming you're using a high-quality 10" to start with. So, it looks like I'll opt for a single 10" in a sealed enclosure. He carries (and was pushing) the Eclipse 5-channel amp and sub, but I still haven't decided whether or not I want to try to save a few bucks, buy the equipment off eBay, and do the install myself or just fork over the $2 grand he's asking for to install/tune the whole setup (including new Viper alarm/remote start system).

Scarrell · Post by **Scarrell** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:44 pm

10"s do produce most accurate response yes. $2,000 for what exactly? what ALL are you getting for $2,000, list the products...etc..

Ryan from Ohio · Post by **Ryan from Ohio** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:46 am

10's producing the most accurate bass?

Thats a false statemnt!

It is sometimes true, but not always! Be careful!

$2G's ouch

audiobass10 · Post by **audiobass10** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:22 am

Yea id also like to see what all you're getting for 2g's. Local dealers sell for major retail. If I were you id definitely look online. If you're afraid of installing something yourself then you could still have a local installer do it for you. Most of them don't care who's stuff they're installing. The viper alarm might be a different situation. A lot of dealers are pissed by the fact you can buy Viper off ebay, because supposedly you're not suppose to be able to. However, I plan on buying the the 791XV off ebay and i'm gettin a local viper dealer to install it for me. As for your sub..I think a Tempest or Shivas would be the best way to go for the money. Don't buy into the 10's being more accurate myth. Although sometimes they might be..sometimes a 15 might be more accurate than certain 10's! Eclipse is very nice stuff, so it wouldn't be right steering you away from them, but for the money you cant beat the Shivas and Tempest IMO.

Scarrell · Post by **Scarrell** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:03 am

well hey in most cases i have seen, 10"s were the most accurate... but anyway, yeah please list what all you are getting, from wiring to F'n fuses...etc... because $2,000 is alot of money. and you dont want to spend that much on somethin that really isnt worth it... as for Eclipse.... excellent stuff, but for the money there are products just as good, like Adire.... so let us know everything.

71buickfreak · Post by **71buickfreak** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:37 pm

[quote="Ryan from Ohio"]10's producing the most accurate bass?

Thats a false statemnt!

Not at all false! a 10" sub will produce in most instances, tighter bass due to its lesser mass. that's not saying a big SPL-geared 10 with a stiff surround and and a heavy mass cone will sound better than a sq-based 12 with a lighter mass, that's apples to oranges, but apples to apples, the 10" will yeild a better quality sound, while the 12 will yeild more spl. simple physics people. ever try to get real SQ out a 15" too much moving mass to control efficiently. It can be done with things like servo controls, but generally speaking, the bigger the the cone, the more spl at a cost of SQ.

As far as buying online vs. in a retail store, come on people! do you really think you will get as good service on the internet than in a shop? Please! especially for a beginner, you need to go to a 12v specialist shop. where you can get a real warranty and service after the sale. $2000 might seem like a lot, but you will get the service you won't get online. 99.9% of all online bought goods carries no warranty. it is either refurbished or gray market goods. unless it is low-level equipment, most manufacturers don't allow their products to be sold on the internet. if it is, its used, or refurbished or like I said gray market meaning an authorized dealer sold it to another dealer who is putting on the internet illegally. seriously people, internet buying is not the best idea. ebay is ok because its usually used, but there is no warranty! if 2k is out of your range, buy it a little at a time and you will end up much happier than if you buy on the internet and have a problem. Shop around, you don't have to buy at the first shop you go to. as far as Kenwood is concerned, its great stuff, you have an excellent warranty because you bought it from an authorized dealer and it will sound awesome. the music keg is cool. The eclipse is good stuff. you might also look at the crossfire line. great gear, excellent warranty and it will be less expensive than the eclipse. where are you located? I can help you find a good shop in your area.