by Jonathan » Wed May 03, 2006 2:44 pm
In reference to the PM that you sent. I won't give direct quotes since I've been requested not to and Bill wants to play dirty
Perhaps I should call out Manville Smith and get his side of the story, perhaps that will be the great equalizer
1: They don't use the same parts. They use the same
parts vendors. He didn't claim they used the same parts, you did. Vifa makes tons of different kinds of drivers, ranging from suckiness to greatness. Just because CDT gives you Vifa drivers doesn't mean that they're good Vifa drivers. For the most part they're mediocre. The part itself can tell you something, while the vendor doesn't tell you much of anything. The deciding factor of the quality of an electronic part will be determined by the tolerances they're built to. Furthermore, the amplifiers CAN'T use the same parts considering the design of both.
2: Yes, they are both built in Asia, previously at the same buildhouse. No, that doesn't mean they're built equivalently. What really matters in that aspect is quality control, in which JL developed methods to manage that from the good ol' USA when a problem arises.
3: Even if you are using the same "parts", that still doesn't mean they're built exactly the same. You know why companies like DST and SEAS, amongst numerous others, offer raw drivers to begin with? Mostly because many of those drivers don't meet the extremely tight specifications of the companies they're producing drivers for. So they put those in the hands of the consumer and cheaper companies in order to make some form of profit off of "the rejects". They're perfectly fine, but they may not be within a +/-.5db tolerance like you'd get from a $100,000 set of speaker towers.
If you really wanted to compare both amplifiers, you'd want to pull multiple amplifiers off a production run and compare them to one another. Both do what they state they're capable of. If you compared a Dayton Reference speaker with a SEAS L18, for example, you'd find the Dayton costs about half and performs equally. The price you pay is that the products are horribly inconsistent and you'll never buy two of them that perform exactly the same. That L18, however, maintains an excellent level of quality control and the extra that you pay makes up for it.
If you really wanted to dig into the topology, I will do my best. I just don't see a point since we're comparing two Asian built middle of the road amplifiers that may slightly give an edge one way or another. Actually, this debate does back up one statement I've made many times:
99% of car audio equipment isn't worth half what it costs
In reference to the PM that you sent. I won't give direct quotes since I've been requested not to and Bill wants to play dirty :D
Perhaps I should call out Manville Smith and get his side of the story, perhaps that will be the great equalizer :rolleyes:
1: They don't use the same parts. They use the same [b]parts vendors[/b]. He didn't claim they used the same parts, you did. Vifa makes tons of different kinds of drivers, ranging from suckiness to greatness. Just because CDT gives you Vifa drivers doesn't mean that they're good Vifa drivers. For the most part they're mediocre. The part itself can tell you something, while the vendor doesn't tell you much of anything. The deciding factor of the quality of an electronic part will be determined by the tolerances they're built to. Furthermore, the amplifiers CAN'T use the same parts considering the design of both.
2: Yes, they are both built in Asia, previously at the same buildhouse. No, that doesn't mean they're built equivalently. What really matters in that aspect is quality control, in which JL developed methods to manage that from the good ol' USA when a problem arises.
3: Even if you are using the same "parts", that still doesn't mean they're built exactly the same. You know why companies like DST and SEAS, amongst numerous others, offer raw drivers to begin with? Mostly because many of those drivers don't meet the extremely tight specifications of the companies they're producing drivers for. So they put those in the hands of the consumer and cheaper companies in order to make some form of profit off of "the rejects". They're perfectly fine, but they may not be within a +/-.5db tolerance like you'd get from a $100,000 set of speaker towers.
If you really wanted to compare both amplifiers, you'd want to pull multiple amplifiers off a production run and compare them to one another. Both do what they state they're capable of. If you compared a Dayton Reference speaker with a SEAS L18, for example, you'd find the Dayton costs about half and performs equally. The price you pay is that the products are horribly inconsistent and you'll never buy two of them that perform exactly the same. That L18, however, maintains an excellent level of quality control and the extra that you pay makes up for it.
If you really wanted to dig into the topology, I will do my best. I just don't see a point since we're comparing two Asian built middle of the road amplifiers that may slightly give an edge one way or another. Actually, this debate does back up one statement I've made many times:
[b]99% of car audio equipment isn't worth half what it costs[/b]
:D